tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post1593268975734628899..comments2023-06-14T02:00:19.132+01:00Comments on Sheepdogs & Wolves: Noise, bricks and flames.Metcountymountyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10481062180758614720noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-48017458432803756222008-05-11T22:03:00.000+01:002008-05-11T22:03:00.000+01:00There are lots of things that I wouldn't actually ...There are lots of things that I wouldn't actually be able to do as a Sgt that I can as a PC, for the time being I like what I'm doing and when I feel the time is right for me to change my career path I will do, I've still got 20 odd years to think about it!Metcountymountyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10481062180758614720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-53264065446107957272008-05-11T21:16:00.000+01:002008-05-11T21:16:00.000+01:00Sounds to me as though you really are afraid to pu...Sounds to me as though you really are afraid to put yourself forward - doubtful of your abilities to pass these exams - and highly resentful of those who do.<BR/><BR/>Come on. Practice what you preach.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-85139691104585366112008-05-11T19:54:00.000+01:002008-05-11T19:54:00.000+01:00anon 0814 - nice waste of a comment, cheers for yo...anon 0814 - nice waste of a comment, cheers for your input.<BR/><BR/>Sarah - I've haven't got issues with my rank, I have no intention of taking the promotion exams for at least 10 years and that is my personal choice, I have enough on my plate at the moment! <BR/><BR/>The only chip I have is for people who think that just because they passed an exam or two about Police procedure and criminal law that they instantly know more about everything than anyone else in a lower rank, especially when those people have actually got more experience or training in a given subject than the person with rank. <BR/><BR/>Experience equals knowledge and acknowledging that in others commands and deserves respect, rank just means a higher starting pay. <BR/><BR/>Guv - thanks for taking the time to read through, yours is definately the inspiration!Metcountymountyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10481062180758614720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-69133201608297423672008-05-10T16:17:00.000+01:002008-05-10T16:17:00.000+01:00Like the Blog - about time you started up! Nice on...Like the Blog - about time you started up! Nice one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-33378956051345150582008-05-10T14:55:00.000+01:002008-05-10T14:55:00.000+01:00"..Not the biggest fan of clowns or of people who ..."..Not the biggest fan of clowns or of people who subscribe to the belief that rank equals knowledge. Which it doesn't..."<BR/><BR/>Sounds as though you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about being just a PCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-22714715376144976812008-05-10T08:14:00.000+01:002008-05-10T08:14:00.000+01:00So this is what you do to keep the socialists in p...So this is what you do to keep the socialists in power.<BR/>No wonder you don't bother about burglary and such like.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-87923138160044179432008-05-08T21:24:00.000+01:002008-05-08T21:24:00.000+01:00You can sleep when you're dead! Or on a quite nig...You can sleep when you're dead! Or on a quite night shift ;)<BR/><BR/>I should really sign off properly so I am not Anon 2338 etc :)<BR/><BR/>NysAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-47496838753531086112008-05-08T09:24:00.000+01:002008-05-08T09:24:00.000+01:00I will be posting another one this weekend, been s...I will be posting another one this weekend, been stupidly busy at work this week and I need sleep!!Metcountymountyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10481062180758614720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-49921344685792703332008-05-07T18:25:00.000+01:002008-05-07T18:25:00.000+01:00The best training of all are most definitely the c...The best training of all are most definitely the call outs, matches, rapid entries, cell tactics etc.<BR/><BR/>I think I may have been wrong with the number of days level one officers do per year on refreshers (and should know really as I'm level one trained! Doh!). It may be around twelve but I'm not 100% certain. Thats not including the exercises we do around the country occasionally.<BR/>Apart from the rapid entry side and a tougher fitness test, I find there are no difference between level one and two.<BR/>Funnily enough I wish to be level two trained again as I'm trying desperately leave my 'specialist' department to return to response policing (proper policing in my opinion). That apparently never ever happens so am happy to be different.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-37779669408138950122008-05-07T15:08:00.000+01:002008-05-07T15:08:00.000+01:00Hey! We need more! Where are you!Hey! We need more! Where are you!Mississippi Naturehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11719927283290798771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-61402352344432708612008-05-06T21:56:00.000+01:002008-05-06T21:56:00.000+01:00level ones do shield and public order training eve...level ones do shield and public order training every 5 weeks with constant use as that's the main reason for them being around, level twos do 2 days a year and then aid deployments. Specialist like EG, fit and medic get more regular training but not as much as the level ones, in my area we get hammered for level 2 aid so probably 5-6 times a month then double that over summer, not counting rapid entry jobs or cell/violent man jobs which come about every so oftenMetcountymountyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10481062180758614720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-4989650948828344972008-05-06T18:29:00.000+01:002008-05-06T18:29:00.000+01:00There are definitely a fair few differences betwee...There are definitely a fair few differences between each force in relation to PSU tactics.<BR/>I was originally trained at Hounslow, followed by Gravesend and now train with a county force.<BR/>The county force I am with deploy two serials with intermediate shields with the rear / third serial carrying round shields. The only times I've known us use long shields are when we've done some type of prison tactic.<BR/>I also find as a county force we tend to do more 'violent man' scenarios albeit that doesn't mean the training is better, its just different. How many times per year do you have to attend Gravesend these days? We do 6 days training per year (not including CBRN training) to be level two trained and I believe a minimum of 9 per year if level one trained.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-18007457621250783482008-05-04T20:05:00.000+01:002008-05-04T20:05:00.000+01:00Health and safety is a crock, it's not as if peopl...Health and safety is a crock, it's not as if people set themselves on fire or get knocked out down there. Not every week anyway......<BR/><BR/>I noticed you had been off the grid for a bit GND, hope you're recovering well??Metcountymountyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10481062180758614720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-23872005050901821022008-05-04T19:34:00.000+01:002008-05-04T19:34:00.000+01:00Yay! You've finally started a blog! :o)Will get li...Yay! You've finally started a blog! :o)<BR/><BR/>Will get link up to you. I've been off the radar for a while so will catch up & read what I've missed :o)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-28929961042941862462008-05-04T19:26:00.000+01:002008-05-04T19:26:00.000+01:00Ah Gravesend. A place completely unrivalled in eve...Ah Gravesend. A place completely unrivalled in every way. <BR/><BR/>I have actually been told by one of the instructors that at some point in the future they may not be allowed to petrol bomb us. <BR/><BR/>Health and safety at work, apparently too dangerous and they get scared by the small amount of officers that do get injured.Happy Met Copperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12371263534796141942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-48831090165417672732008-05-04T03:05:00.000+01:002008-05-04T03:05:00.000+01:00Rather you than me! I wouldn't fancy having to fac...Rather you than me! I wouldn't fancy having to face that sort of situation, so I'm rather grateful that there are brave souls within the force who have such courage.<BR/>Ooooh, it would be far too much excitement for my delicate girly constitution these days.<BR/>Let's hope that none of you have to go through anything like that for real in the future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-4465233371685933102008-05-04T00:43:00.000+01:002008-05-04T00:43:00.000+01:00anon 2358 - I never understood the point of the in...anon 2358 - I never understood the point of the intermediate for precisely that reason, surely you should either have full cover or excellent mobility and not a half arsed attempt at a bad compromise between the two? <BR/><BR/>The Met run long fulls for front rank and short rounds for the two others for speed (for non police each PSU is split into 3 serials, containing one Sgt and 6 PC's, one set on long shields as I described and the other two sets on short round ones who do lots of sprinting and charging, and an inspector runs the whole PSU from the back, total of 22 people) The long shield is heavier but at least you can rest it on the deck without doing your back in and still get full protection for extended periods. <BR/><BR/>As for your point with firearms, I know of a few people who were at some big ones in brixton that suddenly saw round holes appearing in their shields so it has happened, although we don't do any specific training to deal with it and have zero ballistic protection beside the normal body armour, that's why we have the ARV's and SFO's to up the ante if needed!!Metcountymountyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10481062180758614720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-91980663773143053432008-05-03T23:58:00.000+01:002008-05-03T23:58:00.000+01:00Sounds a lot more useful and exciting than the pub...Sounds a lot more useful and exciting than the public order training at GMP. I can't help but wonder though, the whole public order training situation seems to fail to take into account that in certain areas like the one I police, any large scale public order that involves people throwing petrol bombs is also going to see people shooting firearms at the police. If there is a rain of petrol bombs, bricks (not wooden!), body parts and hot lead, I am given a small round shield - somewhat akin to a dustbin lid - to prevent death or serious damage.<BR/><BR/>Call me old fashioned, but give me a full length shield to take cover behind so that when I do run out with my little round shield, there is a safe haven to get back to rather than poor sap with an intermediate shield and broken ankles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-74995344436733534312008-05-03T19:27:00.000+01:002008-05-03T19:27:00.000+01:00Just to let you know I've tagged you on my blog!Just to let you know I've tagged you on my blog!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-53244604183958800752008-05-03T18:11:00.000+01:002008-05-03T18:11:00.000+01:00to my knowledge all UK Police forces use the same ...to my knowledge all UK Police forces use the same tactics and drills to deal with petrol bombs as most use the same kit, and as for the f&ckers who actually use them, no they obviously don't aim for the feet and for that reason most of the time the instructors don't either. Historically the people who throw the bombs are a good distance off so you can see them coming, if they have the bollocks to come close enough to the shield line to actually do some close up damage then they risk not only getting covered themselves, but the kicking of a lifetime if they actually get caught.<BR/><BR/>The tactics that we use with spacings between serials, displacement charges and advances usually mean that the chance of actually getting someone square on with a petrol bomb is slim so most of the time they do smash around you and your feet instead of square on or in the heed. <BR/><BR/>When we do the training they aim for the personnel, sometimes they will go over the heads of the front rank and smash behind, sometimes bounce off or explode on walls, sometimes they won't even ignite. The key is in anticipating where it'll land and moving appropriately or using the shield as defence, and also not smashing the thing over your colleagues if you're on the short shield and can move it quickly. <BR/><BR/>All of the public order tactics we use were developed from real encounters (like Broadwater Farm) where the officers on the ground had to adapt to the tactics used by the crowd and the bombers, then afterwards it comes out in the debriefs and subsequently in training.Metcountymountyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10481062180758614720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-70766915730971070122008-05-03T16:50:00.000+01:002008-05-03T16:50:00.000+01:00Does any other police force in the world use simil...Does any other police force in the world use similar tactics when confronted by petrol bombers?<BR/><BR/>And do "real" petrol bombers always aim for your feet?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-15320265149819339502008-05-03T15:03:00.000+01:002008-05-03T15:03:00.000+01:00Ahhhh the roar of the petrol, the smell of the cro...Ahhhh the roar of the petrol, the smell of the crowd..... Been a couple of years since I went shield training... my trips to Gravesend are all next door these days, you get time in to settle in and have more than 40 minutes drinking time.<BR/>The hounslow days were great (till I started going every 5 weeks!)<BR/>But these days its a youngsters game. Loved the violent man, where else can you get so worked up and not get nicked.... The new kit is better too.... even if everyone else had it 5 years before us!<BR/><BR/>You brought back some good memories MCM - well done you!<BR/><BR/>your linked again now!TotallyUn-Pchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07708826551228653981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-5699312483561220412008-05-03T14:26:00.000+01:002008-05-03T14:26:00.000+01:00Whenever I see that video of the scaffolding pole ...Whenever I see that video of the scaffolding pole going through the car window I always think "That's got to be attempted murder, surely?". Did they ever get the lowlife who did that? Wonder how many hours community service he got? And has anyone ever spoken to the officer driving the car to get his thoughts, funnily enough I think maybe it's only watching it in retrospect that he may realise how close he came to death. <BR/>Great blog BTW, good to see another rise above the morass of so-so stuff about these days.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-9595417842781703292008-05-02T21:46:00.000+01:002008-05-02T21:46:00.000+01:00how that driver on T Sq didn't get killed when tha...how that driver on T Sq didn't get killed when that pole went through the window I'll never know. Every single training video we get on public order has that one in it, I guess it shows the mob mentality perfectly, given the right situation anyone will do close to anything. <BR/><BR/>I remember in my old place when Millwall were down for the day we'd had public order training a couple of days before and they showed a vid of Broadwater Farm but overlaid it with the comms channel, all the vid was synchronised so you could see what was going on while someone was cutting everyone else on the channel out with rubbish as others were putting up for urgent assistance. Sent big horrible chills down my spine when it started going banjo with the millwall fans and we could hear how bad it was with people putting up assistance shouts, and then a traffic guvnor kept cutting across to check that his officers were on their static posts. So easy to do but so dangerous. <BR/><BR/>We still get it with metcall now, it's getting more common people telling metcall to shut up and wait while the units on the ground sort themselves out, they might just being doing their job but when everyone else knows what club they are talking about, asking for the road name and postcode 7 times is only going tie up the air and piss people off.Metcountymountyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10481062180758614720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-12060358711651128952008-05-02T17:21:00.000+01:002008-05-02T17:21:00.000+01:00Never smelled a petrol bomb close up but I have vi...Never smelled a petrol bomb close up but I have vivid memories of sitting outside YT in '85 crowded round 1 local PR (that was all the CAD room could spare) listening to Broadwater imploding. Half of me desperately wanted for our van to be called up and half was petrified that we would be. And the flying picket Welsh miners (they've always denied it, though) throwing wrought iron fence posts like javelins at us in '87 at the Print anniversary. And the poll tax ones when I really thought that that BTP car driver was going to die when that pondlife put that scaffold pole through his window. An a couple of others. We trained every couple of months with my force but I have never been as frightened as crouched down behind 3 of my buddies with long shields awaiting the next metal fence post. Not swinging the lead here, just remembering really. Glad I was there, though, strangely.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com