tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post1534152531414931253..comments2023-06-14T02:00:19.132+01:00Comments on Sheepdogs & Wolves: How many does it take?!?!Metcountymountyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10481062180758614720noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-6865107893422378772009-01-12T21:49:00.000+00:002009-01-12T21:49:00.000+00:00Hugh, I can see the confusion, thanks, I meant the...Hugh, I can see the confusion, thanks, I meant the officers being vulnerable. When you're kneeling down with your head at waist height and concentrating on something and not watching your periphery, it's very easy for someone to try and give you a dig or a boot to the side of the head or try and stamp on your back, all of which I've seen and had more than once.Metcountymountyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10481062180758614720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-45785180218042504822009-01-12T00:52:00.000+00:002009-01-12T00:52:00.000+00:00Great post, but quick question...Another considera...Great post, but quick question...<BR/><BR/><I>Another consideration is that while most people will just watch, some will stand there screaming abuse at you because the person on the deck "ain't dun nuffink" while others will attack the officers, either because they are vulnerable or because they want the person to escape.</I><BR/><BR/>Why would a vulnerable person attack a policeman? Or is vulnerable another PC term that means the opposite of what it should mean?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-59590387317699036752008-06-16T13:15:00.000+01:002008-06-16T13:15:00.000+01:00I happened to see someone being tasered in the str...I happened to see someone being tasered in the street the other day, and it looked to me like a good way of getting him cuffed - rather than being set upon by the many officers present. The officers' actions did not need further justification in my opinion, but as if to underline them the detained person started flailing violently as soon as the taser effect wore off.<BR/><BR/>I think people don't like the idea of them because they look like guns but in fact they are not like guns at all.Old BEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974090439936326476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-21787554301681569412008-06-14T05:37:00.000+01:002008-06-14T05:37:00.000+01:00Taser - the pleasure toy of the sadistTaser - the pleasure toy of the sadistAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-19761609319890784022008-06-12T00:47:00.000+01:002008-06-12T00:47:00.000+01:00There is no actual reason other than a fear of bei...There is no actual reason other than a fear of being prosecuted for it to prevent a similar approach being used here. One could quite easily argue that a fully grown adult male is quite capable of causing significant injury to even several police officers, so to render him ineffective by striking to the head would be proportionate and reasonable.<BR/><BR/>It seems to be the current moral zeitgeist amongst the police is that it's better to use only just enough force to facilitate compliance, and I think we are all the better off for it.<BR/><BR/>We had a pup imported from Holland which looked like a small, completely brown with black nose, German Shepherd. The problem was that it had started it's training in Holland and kept going for the throat. They don't necessarily start at the lower end of the force spectrum elsewhere on the continent ;)<BR/><BR/>NysAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-1315891701412278952008-06-11T12:58:00.000+01:002008-06-11T12:58:00.000+01:00Good post MCM, and one that you should really try ...Good post MCM, and one that you should really try and get printed in a major national newspaper tbh-answering back to the idiot articles we mostly see. <BR/><BR/>A few years ago i was over in Spain on a nice long holiday and saw a quite a few people (visiting fellow brits mostly i'm ashamed to say) arrested, and (inveitably) got to watch some live spanish police takedowns when they made the mistake of thinking the Spanish police are like ours and didn't come quietly...<BR/><BR/>Let me tell you, if you don't comply with them the first time they arrest you, you sure as hell will the second time (assuming you're not in a hospital...).<BR/><BR/>They don't muck around - a few quick baton blows to painful parts of the body which rapidly sends the message: "Keep resisting/trying to hurt me and it's you that'll get hurt. Badly."<BR/><BR/>While i understand the need to try and avoid hurting suspects due to duty of care etc (especially given the litigation culture that's so prevalent now), i can't help but wish you lot could (note COULD - i understand why you can't!) adopt their approach - lets fact it once word got around the scrotes would quickly come quietly once caught!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-21177752037444446732008-06-11T05:51:00.000+01:002008-06-11T05:51:00.000+01:00Heh, just 'dry firing' a Taser (it crackles and vi...Heh, just 'dry firing' a Taser (it crackles and visible sparks of electricity jump between the probes but it doesn't fire the barbs) makes most people go very quiet and listen attentively to what you want them to do...the other trick is to shout out "TASER TASER" at the top of your lungs if the real thing isn't available... except if they work out you're bluffing the shit hits the fan again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-56069933606010837782008-06-10T21:03:00.000+01:002008-06-10T21:03:00.000+01:00TonyF - an SLR is massive and unfortunately wouldn...TonyF - an SLR is massive and unfortunately wouldn't sit easily in a holder on beltkit or a vest, good thought though!!Metcountymountyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10481062180758614720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-71124903199234156932008-06-10T20:55:00.000+01:002008-06-10T20:55:00.000+01:00It is much better to use a weapon that has immedia...It is much better to use a weapon that has immediate effect, does not contaminate anyone else, and has virtually no risk of broken bones - apart from falling to the ground. I personally would much rather see someone controlled or dropped instantly with a Taser than jumped by five or six blokes who have nothing more than a steel bar, brute force or a chemical agent that is more likely to effect them than the suspect. The risk of injury is considerably lower if you actually look at all the tactical options and risk related to each one properly - especially as word of mouth has already seen the threat of Taser to be more effective than virtually anything else.<BR/><BR/><BR/>I agree wholeheartedly wit this comment, But please feel free to use a 7.62mm SLR than a Taser.TonyFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14356306581977054156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-63116295707723075252008-06-10T20:45:00.000+01:002008-06-10T20:45:00.000+01:00Louise, as a paramedic (or trainee technician!!) i...Louise, as a paramedic (or trainee technician!!) if you are attacked on duty (or anywhere for that matter) then forget all that crap they teach you in the class room as you will not remember any of it when it comes to needing to use it. <BR/><BR/>You are allowed in law to do anything reasonable in the circumstances to escape or prevent attack, and especially being female then that means use whatever you have, and that includes a pre-emptive strike if you can honestly say that you felt he person was going to attack you. kick them in the bollocks, nails in the eyes, teeth in anything soft or just grab, twist and pull anything you can get hold of!! <BR/><BR/>If you believe that it is what you needed to do to escape then I would be extremely surprised for the CPS let alone a jury to consider prosecuting you for it. Also I have seen an O2 cylinder to wonders to stop someone in their tracks!<BR/><BR/>There is an often heard saying in the Police "it's better to be tried by twelve than carried by six" If the choice is face a bollocking or even the sack/court for defending yourself or face injury and even death, then I know which one I'd choose if I was able to.Metcountymountyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10481062180758614720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-70307965188206847752008-06-10T20:07:00.000+01:002008-06-10T20:07:00.000+01:00We did a 'Management of Aggression' module in our ...We did a 'Management of Aggression' module in our ambualance training. Basicaly it was a martial arts expert (also paramedic) telling us to not get in that situation or if you find the situation 'escalating' to run away. <BR/><BR/>After this inspiring lecture we were shown several 'break away techniques' none of which I could remember now if my life depended on it.<BR/><BR/>I have long nails to scratch with, teeth to bite with and carry an oxygen cylinder in a handy 'swingable to head height' size. <BR/><BR/>I repeated several times during the afternoon's course, when asked "What are you going to do in this situation?"...... My reply was........ "Kick them in the balls and run!"<BR/><BR/>Glad we have you guys for back up when needed, you do it so much better then we ever could!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-40016101613124209402008-06-10T19:16:00.000+01:002008-06-10T19:16:00.000+01:00orac - simple answer is we run out of people. Each...orac - simple answer is we run out of people. Each bod arrested will have one arresting officer, depending on how serious the incident most will do arrest or use of force notes. By dealing with the incident quickly and showing that we will deal with it quickly, we are able to get the other officers free to carry on but given that each arrest is usually 4 hours or so to process if everyone gets one or sometimes more arrests a night then we run out of people. This happens nearly every night in most places given the rediculously low numbers of officers actually deployed to answer 999 calls and deal with disorder. The alternative however is we stand back and let everything go in which case we might not as well be there. At least if we do and show we will step in and deal with it then the odds are people will back off while we are there. I've seen places left to 'go native' for a couple of months and it takes either a serious hammering over a couple of weeks, or months of normal policing to get it back to a modicum of civility.<BR/><BR/>anon 1630 - I'm with you all the way on wifebeaters. Only ever had one actually try and take me on when we've turned up, most backed down and a few cried when they realised what was going on. That said I've had a couple of the wives and even kids turn on us but that's all part of domestics. Never been a big fan of those jobs to be honest. Some 17 year old (who bloody called us in the first place) tried to put a screwdriver in my neck. Had my mate not seen him and smacked him in the gob first I would have been in the shit bigstyle. His dad was a prick so I guess it ran in the family.Metcountymountyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10481062180758614720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-9785211230882810222008-06-10T18:18:00.000+01:002008-06-10T18:18:00.000+01:00Yeah but all of them go home safe?Yeah but all of them go home safe?Mississippi Naturehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11719927283290798771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-83066581245555028932008-06-10T17:54:00.000+01:002008-06-10T17:54:00.000+01:00unemotional planned and calculated. like i said, c...unemotional planned and calculated. like i said, clinical. anyway the numbers don't add up, you cannot put half a dozen coppers per punter on a busy saturday night. not enough police. so what happens then?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-51170505767609473842008-06-10T16:30:00.000+01:002008-06-10T16:30:00.000+01:00Nice post, nice to see it being explained for once...Nice post, nice to see it being explained for once instead of the usual forum of the press where we just get told it's ' police brutality'. Force is only used when necessary and when other options fail or are not practical to use. Those out there who cannot accept this need to come and do a weekend late / night shift on the frontline every now and then. <BR/><BR/>Having said that, there is a certain amount of pleasure gained from speaking with the victim of genuine wife beater to be told 'He'll kick off, it will need more than just you' as you know then that there is a good chance (given half a chance) that they are going to experience a little of the pain that they have inflicted over the years. Of course these people are bullies and cowards so come quietly most of the time but every now and then 'little man syndrome' takes over and it's their turn to be humiliated for once!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-89860513029284390472008-06-10T14:15:00.000+01:002008-06-10T14:15:00.000+01:00orac - it's not clinical, it's planned, trained fo...orac - it's not clinical, it's planned, trained for and used constantly. Obviously there are times when things go wrong but considering the number of people who get arrested each year and do have to be taken to the floor (most drunks and all violent suspects) the public don't hear about it going wrong because the system works well. It's only when it goes wrong and someone gets injured or killed do the public hear about it or even care.Metcountymountyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10481062180758614720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-71382089302994589072008-06-10T10:37:00.000+01:002008-06-10T10:37:00.000+01:00You sound so clinical about this. is it possible t...You sound so clinical about this. is it possible to be so clinical in a real life situation? i don't think soAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-44955755187495626732008-06-10T09:12:00.000+01:002008-06-10T09:12:00.000+01:00I feel like a porper fool now!I feel like a porper fool now!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-39773226439274222652008-06-10T08:42:00.000+01:002008-06-10T08:42:00.000+01:00Stuart - I was being sarcastic about the hip dislo...Stuart - I was being sarcastic about the hip dislocation...<BR/><BR/>cramerj - if someone is genuine and they are in pain then we'll deal with it by trying to put them into a position where the pressure is eased off. Just as it's easy to tell when someone is lying through their teeth, it's easy to tell when someone is genuinely in pain or they are just screaming out for the crowd to hearMetcountymountyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10481062180758614720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-19526494684074638552008-06-10T07:24:00.000+01:002008-06-10T07:24:00.000+01:00Met, Another accurate post - and no whining about ...Met, <BR/>Another accurate post - and no whining about the boring stuff. <BR/>Too true about it only be the old school or the armed Forces boys who like a scrap - we have Matloes and Squaddies and they know the unwritten rules - no spitting, no attacking wpc's for them - no dogs for us :) <BR/>It's the burberry scum who don't play by the rules - they spit ( which is bad),punch the fairer sex ( which again is a bad move becuase our Dorris are blinkin' hard) and think that walking up and punching a 65 yr old is great, especially if they can away before the old boy knows whats hit him. <BR/>Seeing how the Spanish police react to violence offered to them I say we go too soft too often.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-66954696196271004402008-06-10T05:48:00.000+01:002008-06-10T05:48:00.000+01:00I can certainly see why the more the merrier appro...I can certainly see why the more the merrier approach is preferred in these situations. <BR/><BR/>However Hip Dislocation! that sounds terrifying wouldn't you be terrified that you could damage the femoral artery? (I suppose they would stop struggling soon after!) <BR/><BR/>The force required must be substantial to tear through the ligaments and it must take months to recover.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-76538353435189763542008-06-10T05:18:00.000+01:002008-06-10T05:18:00.000+01:00What do you do if they say they have chest pain , ...What do you do if they say they have chest pain , can't breath or someshuch?malpashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03465468581504191466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-29557950893086599542008-06-10T01:03:00.000+01:002008-06-10T01:03:00.000+01:00I remember being pushed when i was a wannabe scrot...I remember being pushed when i was a wannabe scrote/ general knob jockey by a copper a lot smaller than me. Jesus, I nearly ended up back in the birth canal it was that hard. I hit the floor and stayed there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-21359111777341732282008-06-10T00:50:00.000+01:002008-06-10T00:50:00.000+01:00Comedian Ron White on getting arrested: "I didn't...Comedian Ron White on getting arrested: "I didn't know how many of 'em it would take to kick my ass....but I knew how many they were gonna use."<BR/><BR/>I would usually expect the right number to be "all available that will fit". The quicker you end it, the less anyone will get hurt.Sevesteenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439626386416115766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2136725710155499318.post-54901533489050352592008-06-09T23:23:00.000+01:002008-06-09T23:23:00.000+01:00Nys, agreed about the brew thing, although I've fo...Nys, agreed about the brew thing, although I've found it's usually either the hardcore who play it like the game it is, or serving members of our great Armed Forces that don't mind a bit of a scrap and often expect it, with no hard feelings afterwards!Metcountymountyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10481062180758614720noreply@blogger.com